Let's hear it for Australia

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

Something we will not see here in the USA due to the tree hugging ACLU idiots that control our government.

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.



A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.

Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on national television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own la nguage and our own lifestyle." "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voting the same truths!!

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

BTW, I am all for making the practice of Islamic religion illegal here in the USA.  This is not about freedom of religion, it is purely a move to eliminate the clear and present danger that exists to all Americans by the Islamic community period.  There is good and there is evil, Islam is evil and has no compassion for anyone else other than with in themselves.
Do not be fooled with the passive Islamic community, if you are fooled by these people, you will be tearing down America in falling into that belief that there are good Isamists.

Answer me this if you actually believe there are good Islams.  What has that religion done in this world to make it any better?
Any religion that practices pedophilia by promising virgins in heaven for being a martyr is just plain sick.
Disagree with me?  Hmmmmm?

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

The trouble is Islam is still in the 18th century. At least it is taught as if it is by the religious leaders.  I wouldn't ban any religion, that's dangerous.  I would ban the terrorist teaching by the leaders.  They are not defending themselves as the liberals would like us to think, they agressively want to make the world Islamic. The Branch Dividian Cult may have been handled badly but it was illeagal and needed to be stopped.  Same with this minority of Radicals Islamics. 

Radical Islam is about power. Power of the radical teachers and power over people.  The radical norm is young males 15-24.  What young idealistic male wouldnt want instant fame and virgins?

There are a host of Islamics that believe in tolerance and living along side their neighbor, who ever that may be.  Problem is they wont speak out or go aginst these radicals out of fear.

Still, we will destroy ourselves in the name of tolerance.  We are doing it on many fronts, the southern border, homosexual issues, and with Moslems.  We need to be less tolerant.

We have politicians that are loyal to party and not statesmen, judges that know better than the constitiutiion and people coming into the country that dont want to really be a part.  We have globalisum and religious and racial discrimination.  We are arresting and sending to prison border guards that defend themselves and letting drug dealers and pedifiles go free.   

I'm skeered.

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

However, I do agree with what Austraila's leaders said.  All of it.  I dontthink they banned the practice of Islam there though?

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

Eve, it is the religion.  As sugar coated as it may seem to some the passive Islamist are only running interference.  Their (Passive) teachings are the same as the radicals.  Passives just do not act or they will cover it up.  Moreover the passive Islamist actually condone those acts of terrorism. Those born into as with those converted to Islam have one goal, you are either with them or you are dead.  There is no defined line between radical and passive Islamist, though they try to make it a distinction they teach the words of Mohamed which are flawed, full of hate and deception.  Now there are other religions that deceive but those religions do not lop off heads nor are they a threat to America.
If I am blind to what you are saying Eve, I guess I may have lowered myself to their level.  As I actually believe, A turban head is death to America and they are taking over.

A simple example, news a few days ago out of England that infiltrated a plot to behead a British soldier.  Question, where do you think those Muslims in that plot were going to church?  Their local Mosque down the street of course.  And if anyone tells me that Imam was doing anything to stop what these SOB’s were doing, then it is just too late to make you see what is really going on.  France has already lost the battle with Islamist.  Australia is not stupid.  They are treading the best way possible.  It is my belief to go it one further and make that religion illegal and treasonous on any US soil.
I may be alone in my belief but I know I am right, no matter how much anyone wants to not see it that way.

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

The mistake Westerners make when they think about Islam is that they impose their own views of religion onto something decidedly outside Western tradition. Because violence done in the name of God is "extreme" from a Western/Christian point of view, they imagine that it must be so from an Islamic one. But unlike Christianity, which recognizes a separate sphere for secular politics ("Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"), Islam has never distinguished between faith and power. While Christianity is doctrinally concerned primarily with the salvation of souls, Islam seeks to remake the world in its image. According to orthodox Islam, Sharia law – the codified commandments of the Quran and precedents of the Prophet Muhammad – is the only legitimate basis of government. Islam is in fact an expansionary social and political system more akin to National Socialism and Communism than any "religion" familiar to Westerners. Islamic politics is inevitably an all-or-nothing affair in which the stakes are salvation or damnation and the aim is to not to beat one’s opponent at the polls but to destroy him – literally as well as politically.

Davis received his Ph.D. in political science from Stanford University and is managing director of Quixotic Media and producer of the feature documentary, "Islam: What the West Needs to Know."

Still, we will destroy ourselves in the name of tolerance.  We are doing it on many fronts, the southern border, homosexual issues, and with Moslems.  We need to be less tolerant.

Eve that is almost profound.  How can we be "less" tolerant?  It would be nice but that would mean trying to single out all the bad apples in a barrel that is full of nothing but bad apples.  Sure you may find a good one in there but it is still the same barrel.  It is much easier to throw the barrel out or as I put it, send it back, the whole lot stock and.....

...before we are all contaminated by this "Peaceful" religion that has most everyone fooled.

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

I did mean less tolerant of the whole religon.  If you sit passivly by and watch a child get killed then you are just as guilty of the murder as the one that did it. 

Tolerance is killing us.  A few weeks ago some clerics were praying and looking suspicious and even sat itn teh plane the same pattern as teh 911 hijackers.  Americans complained and they were taken off the plane and detained. The American Islamic relations Council or what ever (Tied to terrorists) were able to get an apology from the airline. 

Muslims CAN live together with others and have for centuries on end.  It's the rise of radicalisum that has changed that.  It si not by nature a peacful religion at all. Just individuals (85%) of them choose peace over radicalisum.

However, I am not for banning a religon from America because of our Constitution.  I am for going after radicals (as we did the Branch Dividan and others).  The clerics and leaders who side/teach/train terrorists hould be imprisioned or deported.  Moslems say they are afraid to go aginst teh radicals..they need to be more afraid not to.  It's this tolerance trhat weakens us in going after them. 

Liberals in Congress dont want us to wiretap the radicals?  The dont want profiling in airports? To hell with that.  Where is the good ole common American Sense. Did it die in the 60's with tolerance movements?

It is a religious war and those in the media and liberals refuse to see that.   The sedate side of Muslim people sit by and let this happen, they are jsuta sguilty. But what aobut us? Arent we jsut sitting by and letting this happen?

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

You are so correct about us (Americans) being to tolerant.  That is is who we are.

Muslims CAN live together with others and have for centuries on end.  It's the rise of radicalism that has changed that.  It si not by nature a peacful religion at all. Just individuals (85%) of them choose peace over radicalism.

 

I can agree up to a point here Eve.  If you notice what has happened is the radicals have got your eye.  "Their the ones!" is partly true.  Take a deep look here and you will see that the Muslims are here and they are what you are not seeing. 

"Islam is in fact an expansionary social and political system more akin to National Socialism and Communism than any "religion" familiar to Westerners. Islamic politics is inevitably an all-or-nothing affair in which the stakes are salvation or damnation and the aim is to not to beat one’s opponent at the polls but to destroy him – literally as well as politically.
Gregory M. Davis"

Everything I can come up with is exactly what this Davis is saying.  The radicals we all know are Muslim.  That is a war that is nothing but a stalemate Eve we all know that except our stakes are higher.  We value life.  It's is the hidden war that the we American are missing.  It is that Muslim next door, the Mosque down the street.  It is allowed in our schools where Christ isn't. Laws are being written just for them Eve, not us as a whole. Islam is a socialist type movement and they are even in our government.
The civilized Muslims are as dangerous as the Muslim kid with 30 pounds of Composition 4 around his chest.  The difference between the radicals and the non-radicals is that these non-radicals have us by the short and curlies and I can't believe we are not feeling (seeing)  that.

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

Agreed.  You and I are going to the same place , just on different roads.

[Nick]

The First Amendment of the Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishemnt of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

These freedoms are part of what make this country different from the rest of the world!

These freedoms are what make this country great!

If you go down the path of banning a recognized religion you are underminning the funamental laws that guide how our Government treats its citizens.

If you can ban the Islamic religion, why not prohibit the reading of the Koran?
Why not ban any spoken word regarding Islam?

Why not allow the Government to conduct searches the homes of Muslims anytime they want?

Why not allow the Government to pickup Muslims off the street and put them in jail whenever they want?

Why not?  Because we have the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

However these laws do not prevent the Government from following Due Process and agressively seeking to bring to justice any person that is actively participating in the illegal acts.

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

This is not about religion as much as it is about a militia that is forming in a religion called Islam.  Nick, being tolerant of the things you pointed out is truely over the top.  To allow a religion based on the total enilation of the USA just to protect what we beleive is free is downright foolish.  This has nothing to do with freedom moreso it is for our own civilized protection.  It is beyond a clear and present danger that Islam will kill you, me and anyone else that is not of that faith.  That is not freedom, it is a simple enilation that you are talking about. 

[Nick]

If it is "Not about religion" as you state, then why seek to ban a religion?

Your point of view seems to be that anyone who is a Muslim or follows Islam should be deprived of their right to freedom of religion. Is this because you believe they're ALL radicals, seeking the destruction of America?  Wouldn't that be making an assumption about an entire group of people based on the actions of a portion of the group?

Wasn't it less than 100 years ago in America when there were factions in the Christian Churches in South that believe African-Americans were inferior and had little right to life?  Would you have been willing to ban the entire Southern Baptist religion because of the this view point?

If you were alive 150 years ago in America would you have been saying "The only good indian is a dead indian"?

If you were alive 65 years ago in America would you have been saying "The only good Jap is a dead Jap"?

Remember, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution do NOT prevent the Government from following due process and seeking justice against anyone that has broken the law.  We both know that if the law breakers were in the Catholic, Lutheran, or Branch-Dividian Curches, the Government would take steps to bring them to justice.

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

Religious rights are denied every day.  Can't even pray at a football game when out of 5000 spectators 3 might be offended.

There is a real danger in banning a religion.  However there is a real danger in the teaching of Islam.   There are radical Islamists, yes, and non-radicals.  Unlike other religions, the radicals are not condemed within the religion enough.   The religon does not promote tolerance and rights as does Hindu, Buddisum, Christianity and even Wicca.

Devil worship is a religion but its outlawed in many areas because it promotes, in practice, animal and soemtimes infant sacrifice as well as drug abuse and sex with minors is another problem with it.  These practices are harmful. 

Islam (radical or not) in practice, is harmful.   The religon is still in the 18th century and seeks to keep it that way.  To women's rights and who gets to hold the power.

The other factor in this is there is little difference in government and the Islamic law.  Talk about seperation of Church and state.  Islam is dangerous because it controls government.  In Christianity we got the inquisistions and Crusades becaus Religion and Government was mixed.   Islamic government, Islamic law, eventualy controld the governments. The radicals want this and the moderates dont mind it.

In Muslim nations, radical or not, you are nobody if youre not a muslim.  there is not tolerance in Islamic law.

Even to non-radical Moslims we are the devil and many wouldnt phone in a 911 to save a westerner.

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

If it is "Not about religion" as you state, then why seek to ban a religion?

Your point of view seems to be that anyone who is a Muslim or follows Islam should be deprived of their right to freedom of religion. Is this because you believe they're ALL radicals, seeking the destruction of America?  Wouldn't that be making an assumption about an entire group of people based on the actions of a portion of the group?

Wasn't it less than 100 years ago in America when there were factions in the Christian Churches in South that believe African-Americans were inferior and had little right to life?  Would you have been willing to ban the entire Southern Baptist religion because of the this view point?.................

That is the mess we are in. I totally agree that America's carnage of those times were not how it should have been.  It still continues today!  But this is apples and oranges Nick.  I am not in support of banning a religion not in the least.  The problem is that people want to make a line between two Islamic beliefs. (There is only one Islamic belief)  Easily done as you can see the heads being lopped off, bombs killing everyone and body's found dead and tortured in the streets of Baghdad.  Those would be the terrorists. They are Islamics and are carrying out Muhammad's message.  Then there are the peace loving Western Islamics who do nothing to pronounce the atrocities taking place by their brothers of the same exact religion.  Nick, they are reading the same book written by the same asshole that plundered thousands of "unbelievers" in his own time.  Okay, the Bible has carnage, disasters and such, but no where can I find it giving me instructions to destroy the "unbelievers". 
England is facing a major problem with Muslims, Australia is up to it's knee's and at least heading in the right direction. France, well they dug their hole like we are digging ours.  Islam is not a religion in my opinion.  It is a massive cult carrying out it's own charter that was written by a man much like Hitler was in the 30's and 40's.

Just MHO mate

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

The problem is that people want to make a line between two Islamic beliefs. (There is only one Islamic belief)

That sums it up.