Gotta Vent!!!

[Morbius{MEOW}]

Ok, I am as patriotic as the next vet out there but enough is enough. I swore an oath to follow the orders of the commander and chief and as far as I know, I have never been absolved of that oath, still in or not, but I think Bush has gone off of the deep end. He is using his VETO just becuase the Dems want our soldiers to come home.
Iraq is a civil war now, get our troops out of it!!! Everyday I see more and more vids of little kids wanting their mommies and daddies to come home,  and talking to them in that wonderful safe place called heaven.  Just when I think I do not have any more tears, whooop, here is another one.  Mabey the boss needs to watch some of these so that he can see what he is doing to the people of this country.
How many more mothers have to explain to their children that daddy is never comming home.

I mean it is hard enough for me to explain to my daughter why daddy is crying after watching one of those videos or he sees a familiar name on a list of soldiers who are coming home in the horizontal position. But I guess the white house does not have internet.

Fight the battles that need fighting becuase they need fighting. Do not fight battles becuase daddy started it and couldnt get the job done.
But then again he knows that he cannot run for another term so what does he care. The people have had enough, his military advisers have told him that there is not anything more they can do over there, the people have told him that they want the troops home,  most of the elected officials in the country have said bring them home, but once again he veto's the bill becuase he knows that they cannot get the needed 3/4 majority becuase of party lines.
But then again why does he care. It is not his son, daughter, mother, father, sister, brother etc over there.

Ok, I gotta stop now.

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

I am on your side Morb, get them home!  Or if anything, continue on with the mission of taking out Bin laden, so much focus is on Iraq that we lost track of the reason we are over there!  Nothing but a bunch of turban heads killing everyone.

[Darsus]

Morb I have to disagree. I agree with Bush and the decision to VETO any bill that has a time table in it. We would put more soldiers in harms way if a time table is announced. It's called OPSEC - Operational Security. Never annouce your plans.
But at the same time I think it's time to bring them home.

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

The key to Iraq is the same as here at home. Close the borders.
That will get the guys home sooner and save lives. 

[Raidien{MEOW}]

I'm going to have to agree with Nigh and Dars on this one...

Yes, it would be great to get them home as soon as possible, but at the same time, we don't want to short the troops the assistance they need... and setting a deadline will only make matters worse. how many terrorist attacks has America (or other countries) suffered since the War in Iraq (excluding terrorist wannabies... eg: Virginia Tech, NASA, etc...)? People are mad at Bush for what? making this a safe country? come on people... I sympathize with the families who have lost their loved ones in this war, but at the same time... this war... This war has raged on for years... and to be quite honest, for a war that has raged for this long, and for this being one of the most ultimate urban wars, we have suffered very few casualties... which is a great success in itself... I think this war has taken more strategic planning than any of the other wars, and this can be seen by the few casualties that we have seen in any war. Many wars have been shorter, and have had far more casualties... even single battles have had more casualties than this entire war. We should consider ourselves lucky for this. Yes, our President put our troops in harms way to protect our country, because thats what the military is for. I thank our troops for their dedication and courage, and thank them for making this country a safe place to be. I pity the troops, however, because their work is going unnoticed in our country. "bring the troops home, their not doing anything over there any more"... "bring the troops home, their mission has already been accomplished"... no it has not... if it was, they would be home. Give the President and the troops the respect they deserve, they are enabling us all the freedom to complain about them. Without that freedom, we would all be hanged for the things we say. These are the times they need our support, and we are telling them they don't have it because we are not willing to let them do their job to make this country free. The terrorists violated our freedom to live, and they are paying the price. And while they are paying the price, we are training the citizens to be safe and free... have you not seen the children that play with guns, trying to kill everyone? if we leave now, they will grow up to carry out the same acts of terror that have been carried out in the past... We are not only trying to make us safe "for now", but for the future as well. I hate to tell you, but planning for a safer tomorrow takes a lot of work today.

Well, thats my perspective. take it or leave it. Our freedom has come with a price... a price that is still being paid for by the sacrifices of our loyal, courageous troops. Our troops suffer the casualties so the American citizen doesn't have to. I can think of another character in another story who did the same...

[INSTINCT]

On the singular level every trooper over here is a patriot and a hero ,and is deserving of our praise and respect.!  that bieng said imho it is the us military that has failed the fight ..at the very highest levels a lack of understanding and perception on land wars in muslim nations is abundant. GW bush gives the order, it is the military that needs to execute and finnish that order,what we are seeing is failure to grasp and clamp the enemy .failure to learn from the mistakes of the russians in chechnya and the failures of the israelis in lebanon , the failures of the british empire 50 years ago .

when we went to war against germany in WW2 , we went against a "civilised" nation if you can call nazis that , but anyhow european civilization defacto

when we occupied germany the civilian populus put down war for rebirth , why ?...many cultural reasons but one of them was modern western nations
arent fueled by religeon or fanatic religeos zealots.

this enemy we face today is neither civilized nor modern, they have no understanding of the rise of the modern nation and the rule of law.
they are savages every last one of them , and are hell bent and driven by the muslim death cult, to war against this type of nation we must be as
viscious and devastating as the great bubonic plague itself, gut the muslim heart out of iraq , kill muqtar al sadr and any other zealot who even dares
to dream of insurgency. demoilish mosques that preach hatred and clamp down on the iraqi population by the neck untill it understands and heeds our will.

alas the american backbone for war is soft , and we are unable to wage war as we need to , so the familiar cries of bring home the troops resurface
just as they did in 1972.  by contrast there are millions and millions of muslims ready willing and able to kill us and will do so, without cries of "stop the jihad"
or bring home the jihadis!.

you can argue the rights and wrongs of the iraq war till the cows come home , but the larger picture is not bieng looked at , i fear many more 911's and
muslim terror in our homeland is what is needed to wake up this country and to face down islam wherever we need to . bring the troops home ?..sure why not im sure the requisite parades of ragheads with ak47's shouting kill americans , kill jews will follow on after said retreat ..sad really..but expected .

GW takes the fall cus he is the commander in cheif ..so be it ..but GW didnt loose the fight ...cowardly battle plans and misguided military high ups lost the fight pin that to donald rumsfeld an co.  surround yourself with fools and the real fool will be you GW.

bring on hillary clinton ..the sissyfication of america is not yet complete.

[Kitty*{MEOW}*]

well I have to side here with Morb. Bush is just on a rampage and is not looking at the fact. OK so don't make the date they are going to pull out public then no one knows but us. WOW that was simple. Hmmm     This is a never ending war. It won't end i dont care how long we stay. We have liberated the people of their tyrant leader whom supposedly had nuclear weapons (which none have been found to date). Why do we have our guys over there dieing everyday for something thats not our fight. BRING THEM HOME!!!!!!!!!!!


       If Bush and the democrats both would sit down and talk to each other and settle this thing out then our troops would have the money they need and they would know when they would get to see their kids again.

[Gilmo{MEOW}]

Just have three points
1.  Bush and his plan are not keeping us safe.  Millions of illegals come across our borders every year.  The troops we would need to halt that are in a foreign country in the middle of a civil war.
2.  We did not finish with Afganistan first and now that is a resurgent problem
3.  We were lied to....I know that the Iraqi's are better off without Saddam but the American public by what we can find was lied to.  They sold our children(soldiers) a load of bull.  I respect the soldiers but you can shoot the politicians on both sides for all I care.

[NighEve*{MEOW}*]

There's a guy coming out with a book, I'll look it up at the office on Monday.   Has a pretty convincing case that basically we will never win a war as long as we have liberals in power (congress and media).  Film at 11

I think Bush made a mistake or two.  Okay 6 or 7.  But the military aught to run wars..not politicians. 

[THEKATZ*{MEOW}*]

Absolutely Bush made mistakes.  When we went in to Afghanistan we did not finish the job!  Instead, turned our attention to liberating a country that needed to be liberated and set free.  No there was no WMD's found but every country had the same information, Saddam had WMD's.  Now weather he actually had them who knows, if he didn't then the  CIA, MI6, The Institute's (Mossad) intel is very piss poor. We did find Mig 24's buried in the desert for what ever reason and these coneheads bury everything.  There is strong suggestions that anything he did have ended up in Syria.  I mean it was no secret we were coming.  Wolf Blitzer and the bright lights of CNN on the roofs were enough to let anyone know what was happening.

We do need to get this job done and get out soon. That means putting more troops on the ground then put them there and get'er done and move on to the next objective! If anyone thinks just bringing them home is going to end the death toll on Americans then their thinking is not right.  Everyone is forgetting that in 20 minutes, we lost over 3000 innocents in the attacks of 9/11.  That is a drop in a bucket compared to what these Muslim a$$hole's want, it will not stop by just "bringing the boys home"   I agree with Morbius to the point of the futile efforts that are going on in Iraq, we need not be there, rather we need to be setting up to drop kick any intentions that are directed at us.
In my earlier post I said bring'em home, well that would be nice and I pray for it.  But realistically, our nation will be in the same shape that Iraq is if we don't hunt these butt heads down to the end.  Not liberating Iraq!
The socialist society we are living in is going to kill us all.  We can't impose the Patriot act because it is an invasion of our rights??  What in the hell are we hiding?  If it is that secret, then maybe we need to listen in to your conversations.  But that is not what the Patriot act is about, it is a counter terrorism tool that Democrats fear will allow the government to know what is really going on.  Paraniod?  I think so.

[INSTINCT]

lets open mcdonalds over there...make them all obese and too tired to kill......get em with the good old Le Big mac.

even the most fanatic muslim cant resist the secret sauce.

[Gilmo{MEOW}]

   Nice Instinct.  I think it might work too.  Be cheaper thats for sure. 

More serious note: My point was this....if some poor mexican with no money can get across the border and disappear into the thin air of the american economy....what might a well funded group of radicals be able to do?  Secure the homefront, then save the world.  For crying out loud, they want to give these illegals the same rights taxpaying citizens have.  If that happens, you can kiss Texas, New Mexico and California goodbye because THEY will have the edge in the vote over US.  CLOSE THE DAMN BORDERS.

second point:IF we finished in Afganistan first
A:A full third of the opium production(illegal) would be off the market(less poison on our streets)
b:we would have a secure base from which to outright kick the living sh*t out of any threat in the area.  (Suadi does not count as they have all kinds of restrictions on what we are allowed to do because they are paying these fanactics off so they will stay out of their country)

[Raidien{MEOW}]

I totally agree with you Gilmo... and Instinct :P We are trying to help another country secure their borders, while we have no concept of how its done in our own country. Allowing an alien to vote and live like everyone else is like giving those same rights to a murderer... both broke the law, so they should have no rights. I have no problem with people coming here legally and living normal lives, but an illegal immigrant will get no respect or sympathy from me.

maybe we can deport them all the iraq to work at the mcdonalds there... since mcdonalds won't be able to run in the states without the illegal immigrants  i'd love to see them smile